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Old 13th March 2011, 06:38 AM
berty177 berty177 is offline
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Default Dont know Ian

[QUOTE=IAN TAYLOR;56158]At our nefta meeting clubs voted for the disabled class and our regions rep should have put it to the bfta for discussion why this did not happen i do not know.

Ian, I cant answer that 1 sadly fella......???

Also tried the alternate positions very stable you could shoot a pygmy shrews left testicle off at 45 yards, massive advantage.

Ian, I understand that you say it is alot steadier for YOU in these altrnative positions but as you know you do not have a disability that would casue you to be in pain whilst shooting, thus why these positions have been put in place.

Thats the point Im trying to get at, its fine that everyone tries the positions out and make their comments but you dont suffer with as TonyF has Osteoarthritis so how would you know the amount of pain people go through to complete a course????

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Old 13th March 2011, 08:50 AM
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dozbadthebad dozbadthebad is offline
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I've got a question, whos saying these people are disabled???

If they have a "Doctors note" that says they have a problem, then we have to be careful not to descriminate against any disability. So if you come to a shoot and have a note saying that you can't stand or kneel we have to support their needs, but I agree there should be no advantage gained. So bring on the doctors note stating you can't stand or kneel or just get on with it.

Coz in all the years i've been shooting i've only seen 2 doctors notes, the rest have all been word of mouth.

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Old 13th March 2011, 10:35 AM
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TonyF TonyF is offline
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Since I am unfortunately involved in this debate because of my condition, I read the posts with interest, and try not to comment or infulance others thoughts too much.

However I think what you suggest Doz about the Doctors note/written proof of disabilities would not be a problem to be provide by the "genuine" person, and that would stop all those others suggested by this thread that are taking advantage.

Within SWEFTA, I only know of 3 people that use one or other of these positions, all are genuine and it has not caused any problems at all, so to think of a seperate class of 3 would not be very competive!

About being more stable, it is NOT for us because of our conditions, but does give us a change to try and take the shot as closely to the normal position as possible. My personal view on the alternative standing position, is that very, very few people should ever have to use this position .... if you can still walk or limp around a course as I do, then take them in the normal way ..... I certainly do for the standers! (If you in a wheelchair or have to use cruches/stick, then that maybe a different case!
AA Field Target Team 2007~2011
East Devon FTC - SWEFTA Club Champions 2006/2007/2008/2009/2010 & 2013/2014/2015
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Old 13th March 2011, 11:50 AM
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aitchuk aitchuk is offline
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I am regestered disabled I have arthritous in my knees and elbows and this is on my files
so I cane produce a doctors note to that effect
BUT that is not realy my disability I am disabled because of heart, chest and a few other bits and
So I could play the disability card if I so wished but in my case at the moment that would be
May be in the future I may need to use an alternative possion but as of now I get through
on pain killers and a couple of days recovery
When it does get to the stage of having to use alternat possions I will stop shooting
comps if I am put in a differant class or considered to be gaining an an unfair advantage.
Able bodied people can not and never will be able to put themselves in the position of
a disabled person
As stated in earlyer posts we need to weed out the CHEATS
All so you need to consider the laws on discrimination as a rule exists to be inclusive tampering
with it could leed to action being taken against the BFTA or region

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Old 13th March 2011, 02:06 PM
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Default agree

Originally Posted by dozbadthebad View Post
I've got a question, whos saying these people are disabled???

If they have a "Doctors note" that says they have a problem, then we have to be careful not to descriminate against any disability. So if you come to a shoot and have a note saying that you can't stand or kneel we have to support their needs, but I agree there should be no advantage gained. So bring on the doctors note stating you can't stand or kneel or just get on with it.

Coz in all the years i've been shooting i've only seen 2 doctors notes, the rest have all been word of mouth.

I agree with Doz. Maybe an idea could be that the BFTA introduces a `disabilty card` to all shooters who can show that their Doctor feels that shooting standing and kneeling is detramental to their health or totally incapable of doing such positions. This card can then be shown when booking in takes place. No one can argue then that people can legally shoot using the disabled positions.
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Old 13th March 2011, 02:43 PM
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Default disabled

We have a guy in Scotland who most people will know his name is John Noon. He has a severe
handycap with his right arm, as most shooters will have seen, he has never asked for dispensation
for any his positional shots.... but i will tell you he is one of the best sitting shooters i know. If any of you have seen him shooting standing you have to give him 10 out of 10 for effort because he shoots one handed
he takes all his kneeling shots standing as well .The way i look at it is if some one is able to walk round a course get up and down 50 times they are more than able to take standing shots and if they cant kneell then take them standing ,remember this is only my opintion
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Old 13th March 2011, 05:30 PM
flintlock flintlock is offline
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Are we puttoing too much emphasis on the word Disabled. I say this as someone who has a Grandaughter who is genuinely disabled. To my way of thinking a shooter who can make his way around the course but has difficulty taking standing / kneeling shots due to a genuine medical condition is suffering a handicap/disadvantage, but he might not be classed as disabled.
If we say we have Class that caters for Disabled/ Disability shooters then will the Clubs have to make sure they have full disabled access with all that entails ?
I don't disagree with the alternative positions for those with a proven medical condition,in fact I support,but please do'nt call them disabled
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Old 13th March 2011, 05:47 PM
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rich rich is offline
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I refer the honorable member to post #12.
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Old 13th March 2011, 06:50 PM
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RobF RobF is offline
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I must say this thread seems to have picked up and become more positive.

If people are able to give a shooter equal respect if they are able to produce a medical note from a doctor, then I am all for it.
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Old 13th March 2011, 07:37 PM
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Miss England Miss England is offline
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It is good to see the tone of this thread has calmed down.... I have had an idea and would be grateful if you could let me know your thoughts.........

I liked the idea of disabled cards.... so how would you attain one.....

As we are all aware most people could go to a doctor and obtain a note stating they need to refrain from something, but as none of us are qualified to diagnose other shooters medical condtions, a valid doctors note should be the starting point.....

For a sum of 30 a specific doctors letter can be obtained (prices may differ but having had one from my doc previously that is what I paid) this specific letter would detail the reasons why the shooter could not attain the mainstream position be it because it is physically impossible or would cause actual damage to the person. Also I believe that if a shooter is going to shoot for and represent their club in competitions that this cost could be split 50/50 between shooter and club as the doctors letter would enable that shooter to represent the club.... Just an idea....

After attaining this the shooter could then have to get a personal reference from shooters on their circuit (these references would be better valid if it was from outside the shooters own club, so trying to eliminate unfair bias...)The object of this reference is to help verify the need for the disabled position, and act as a character reference. For example shooters in my region CSFTA have seen me on many occassion in doubled over pain and struggling and are aware of all various treatments I have been undergoing, therefore I could find numerous people who could verify my position.

The doctors letter along with a character reference could then be taken to the Chairman of your club who would "sign off" the application giving the clubs backing and their personal backing that the application is genuine. Obviously if the chairman does not believe it to be genuine (and most chairmen should know their members abliities and character) then they would not back the application. Also I believe that should a chairman authorise a "false" or "non-genuine" application that the club would recieve a penalty - disqualification from that year winter league for example - a harsh penalty would discourage any falsifying of disability applications. It is a serious issue - ensuring people do not take advantage of a disabled positon when it is not genuinly needed.

As a further step this could then be submitted for final approval to the regional chariman. Again this would add further validity to the claim.

Once all is validated - and although it sounds like we would have to jump throught hoops so to speak, it would then mean a fully approved "disabled card" could be issued with that shooters name, number, club and approved disabled position which would need to be presented at the beginning of every shoot.

That way every shooter would know that any person taking disabled positionals have been fully validated and the reason is genuine so they are not gaining an unfair advantage.

If the person needing the disabled position is genuine then these steps would ensure that we are seen to be using the positions "Fairly". I know that some may feel that this proceedure is over the top, but I feel that with several stages of validation, then the disabled position is used fairly.

I would be more than willing to do this as I want no percieved advantage I want to shoot well, improve and my god yes I want to win something...... But I want to do it with everyone congratulating me not stating that I only won because I used a disabled position for my kneelers I want to win on my skills (as and when I hopefully develop them!!)

I love shooting FT. The challenges of the sport, the people I get to shoot with, and the buzz I get every time I see a target fall.

Please let me know what you think.....
Miss Helen England
Southampton Buccaneers FTC Treasurer, CSFTA Treasurer, Lucky Shot and Cake Maker!!
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