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Old 19th September 2016, 10:22 AM
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Default FT: Bipod use during range finding allowed?

I have got I question about the WFTF rules for which I could not find an answer in the rule documents on the WFTF website or the WFTC2016 website .

The situation was brought up by a shooter with a knee and hip injury. It is not possible for him to get in the sitting FT position without great discomfort and pain. He would like to use the prone position instead using a rifle sling to stabilize the position.

The difficulty that rises for him is the range finding, or better: the turning of the sidewheel to do the range finding. With the left arm holding the rifle in the prone position it is quite difficult to use the right hand to turn the wheel.
This shooters asks if he can rest the rifle on a bipod for the range finding?
And after the range finding is done adopt the prone shooting position and shoot the target.

The rules say that no part of the gun may contact the ground during shooting.

WFTF Rule 8.8. FREE POSITION - The shooter may use any shooting position that is safe and comfortable to the shooter. No other means of support, other than the shooter, shall be used for the rifle or body. The rifle cannot contact the ground. No body straps are allowed.

So the question probably boils down to whether the "range finding position" is considered to be a "shooting position" or not ?
Or if "range finding" is "shooting"?
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Last edited by sven; 19th September 2016 at 10:24 AM.
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  #2  
Old 19th September 2016, 11:16 AM
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Rangefinding from standing position, hold gun with left hand and use right hand to focus.

Probably not the answer he would like to hear but HFT sounds like an ideal alternative. Shooting FT prone just isn't feasible especially a full course.

Bench rest is another good alternative.

Or shoot the course from a standing position and range from the standing position.
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Old 19th September 2016, 11:33 AM
Keith t Keith t is offline
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1.4 i. Bipod (Only to support the rifle while not in use)

I would then think that the answer is no
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Old 19th September 2016, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith t View Post
1.4 i. Bipod (Only to support the rifle while not in use)

I would then think that the answer is no
In the interest of pedantry is the rifle really 'in use' sat on the floor whilst a shooter 'uses' the scope to range find? And furthermore if a scope is attached to a rifle then is the rifle being 'used' to hold the scope when the rifle is not held by the shooter....(I ask this second question in anticipation of reply)
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Old 19th September 2016, 12:40 PM
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Thrash it around for another 6 pages, explore every possible loop hole".............. The answer will be NO!
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Old 19th September 2016, 01:09 PM
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Default bipod

How would using a bipod in the prone position for range finding be any different to the people who extend there adjustable rowan hamsters to full extension and rest there guns for range finding in the kneeling position?
Just a thought.
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Old 19th September 2016, 01:28 PM
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Sorry I miss read, If you can rest your bipod on your knee whilst range finding I'm sure that will be fine.
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Old 19th September 2016, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith t View Post
1.4 i. Bipod (Only to support the rifle while not in use)

I would then think that the answer is no
Thank you Keith. The answer is in Rule 1.4 as you say. And so it looks to me that it is not allowed to use the bipod for range finding.
Cleared now. I'll inform the shooter that he has to find a different solution.

A Kahles K1050 may help, but I'm not sure that's the solution he's willing to pay for
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Old 19th September 2016, 02:57 PM
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I believe the OP (Sven) also had the older rules wrt the Prone position.

This is what I believe to be the current rule:
8.9. PRONE – (which may be used in the “Free” position) The Shooter lays face down. The shooter’s forearm,
from elbow to fingertips must be clear of any artificial or natural support. However, a sling as described
in rule may be in contact with the shooter’s forearm in order to help steady their arm.

As this refers to the ''Free" position, see 8.8 below:

8.8.FREE POSITION - The shooter may use any shooting position that is safe and comfortable to the shooter.
No other means of support, other than the shooter, shall be used for the rifle or body. The rifle cannot
contact the ground.
No body straps are allowed.

8.6.KNEELING
a. A shooting position where there shall be only 3 points of contact with the ground (2 feet and 1 knee).

Definition of use in English:

use
VERB

[WITH OBJECT]
1.Take, hold, or deploy (something) as a means of accomplishing or achieving something; employ.
(from Oxford Living dictionaries - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/use )

While the use of a hamster is perfectly legal and included in the rules, it will not be allowed to 'touch the ground' according to 8.8 as it becomes part of the rifle when connected. perfectly acceptable to use it while sitting (ie 8.8 'Free' - no touching the ground) or kneeling (refer to 8.6 - only 3 points of contact = 2 feet and 1 knee), so one cannot compare the hamster to a bi-pod.

The bipod is allowed only for giving your rifle something to rest on/balance when not in use, simple straight forward and easy.

Remember that the rules are a set of guidelines and are not there for everyone to nit-pick and try and find loopholes. A certain amount of sanity and common (?) sense needs to prevail. I think Brian Samson said it very nicely in an much earlier thread, but I cannot find it now to refer back to.

In my opinion, once you enter the 'shooting zone' - the area where you take your shot from (see 2.1 I guess) and the timing starts (see 5.6) then the whole purpose of what you are doing is to take the shot/s, so that would be 'shooting'. You are then 'USING' your rifle and all its legally attached goodies for that purpose.

When you are awaiting your turn to shoot and your rifle and all its legally attached goodies is resting on the ground (pointing in safe direction down range), then surely your rifle is not 'IN USE' as you are not 'employing' the rifle at that point in time.

KISS principle


(Link to WFTF Core rules - http://www.wftc2016.com/OfficialSite...les%202016.pdf )
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Old 19th September 2016, 03:00 PM
Keith t Keith t is offline
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Hi Sven,

Only a pleasure, see my earlier reply also (i type really slowly )


Quote:
Originally Posted by sven View Post
Thank you Keith. The answer is in Rule 1.4 as you say. And so it looks to me that it is not allowed to use the bipod for range finding.
Cleared now. I'll inform the shooter that he has to find a different solution.

A Kahles K1050 may help, but I'm not sure that's the solution he's willing to pay for
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