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  #11  
Old 13th May 2016, 12:17 PM
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Brian.Samson Brian.Samson is offline
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Originally Posted by RAMBO View Post
Do you have any results for Walthers mate.
We don't see enough Walthers in the range to be able to come up with any meaningful conclusions unfortunately.
Unless you mean Walther LGU/LGV and RM8 - in which case the LGU/LGV's like the springer dies and the RM8 seems to group like a Daystate or AirArms barrel. I've only checked on one .177 RM8 though (most that we see are .22's) but the .177 RM8 was excellent! a real tack driver. It impressed the hell out of me anyway.
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  #12  
Old 13th May 2016, 12:29 PM
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Welsh Wizard Welsh Wizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Samson View Post

It could be that those extra 10 yards make a huge difference. My assumption is that the groups would be a bit bigger but it's unlikely that you'd see a mega batch turn into a shite batch over that last 10 yards.

That's what I have found, that 10 yards can mean a batch I would have said ok to use at 45 is not acceptable at 55




It's also indoors so it may be that a pellet that's mega indoors ends up being crap when shot outdoors.

Never tested indoors but have seen windless days produce pellets that do 1 hole groups (Gadget and his die 8) and then when a the turbulence from a passing butterfly hits the pellet its 60mm out of kill!






it may be that a great batch is great in pretty much everything and a shite batch is shite in pretty much everything.


Sometimes. Dies 46 have worked well in most for us.

My die 12, I had one Eve 2 that will one hole with them, one that shotguns.
don't forget go faster pellets



Lot to be said for a chrono at 55 yards
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  #13  
Old 13th May 2016, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Wizard View Post

Lot to be said for a chrono at 55 yards
Yup - but I'm not risking a chrono at the end of our range, the ProChrono doesn't work under our lighting.

Given the choice, I'd rather base my little tests on 55 yards, but I don't have 55 yards so 45 will have to do.

The theory I'm putting forward though possibly doesn't matter.. it might, I dunno..

The theory is this.... A Good batch of pellets will be good in most rifles, a bad batch of pellets will be bad in most rifles.

That theory is contrary to what I believed before.. but it's something I'm investigating, given the limitations I have at the range. On the plus side - I do have a wind free environment to test and I do have access to more guns and barrels than most people do. Most people will conduct tests on 2 or 3 guns, I've got access to potentially hundreds of them
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  #14  
Old 13th May 2016, 01:33 PM
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Cheers Brian, Would like to come over one day to see what can actually be achieved standing at 50yrds, in comparison to 50mt 3 position guys and what they can do.
Always amazed at the groups these guys get when watching it on the issf channel.
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  #15  
Old 13th May 2016, 02:10 PM
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Default 55 indoor

We have been shooting inside at 55 yards for 4years , never had any one attend who after some testing indoors was not amazed by what their air rifle can do. Would agree with Brian, but would add if you find a mega 55y batch indoors it does appear when tested out doors to take less wind than a good batch.
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  #16  
Old 13th May 2016, 02:40 PM
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Thanks Brian was asking about Walther domi I moved away from Jsb express to Air Arms express as I find them more consistent and not as many damaged straight out of the tin.
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  #17  
Old 13th May 2016, 05:50 PM
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Another interesting post.

After a lot of batch testing indoors and outdoors over the last few years, and I have realised that my results are similar to Brians, although I have not used a chrono down range like Brian. It would seem that head size means virtually nothing and is not indication of actual size.This has been found by myself with some expensive engineering measuring gear and by Brian and a few others with the pellet gauges that can now be bought. Chrono readings seem to give some indication of consistency in weight from the tin as well, which is fairly common knowledge I suppose.

The guns that I have been using for testing are AAS400, S410 and two AA MPR's (one of which has scored a few high 50 scores and the other was Kieran Turners multi course clearing MPR) as well as my tight grouping EV2, and for the last year my Steyr LG110. I have found that a mega batch is very good in all my guns including the Steyr. A few batches shine more in the Steyr or EV2 but there is not much in it.

I have really struggled to find good batches of JSB exacts but have found at least four very good batches of Air Arms Fields.I have not yet tried tried any of this years JSB exacts though and after speaking to Brian it seems that they are well worth looking at.
I have found some very very good JSB express batches that really did put the tightest groups ever by me indoors, but the first time I used them outdoors in wind for a competition they just went loopy, and they seemed not to follow the wind but de stabilise and fly up down or wherever. I dont have any hard evidence as to why this happened but I actually wondered if the shorter 7.9's were less stable in wind (only speculation on my part).

Also, last year after spending a small fortune on some AA field Die 9's and 2's that both of MPR's absolutely loved and shot very flat with, I went out and bought my Steyr, it was only after, that I realised that the Steyr might not like the very expensive stock of die 9's and 2's and I might have to sell them to find something the Steyr liked, as I also thought every type of barrel is different. Luckily the Steyr loved the same pellets and flew just as flat right out to 45/55 yards. After checking quite a few other batches since I have found that they are either good in everything, or nothing. I didnt keep my HW100 long enough to find how different that was. I suppose the BSA barrels might have different results as well.

All of this is not very scientific, but it does appear a lot of findings from people in depth testing batches is coming to similar conclusions.
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Last edited by DEAN C.; 13th May 2016 at 05:53 PM.
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  #18  
Old 13th May 2016, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
Cheers Brian, Would like to come over one day to see what can actually be achieved standing at 50yrds, in comparison to 50mt 3 position guys and what they can do.
Always amazed at the groups these guys get when watching it on the issf channel.
Well if I had to put my money on anyone being able to do it, I'd be betting on you.
I suspect that the limitation for you is going to be your rifle, if you had a rifle set up specifically for standing shots I bet you'd put in much tighter groups.

That would be an experiment worth doing to find out if there's a better compromise setup between an awesome standing setup and an awesome sitting setup.
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  #19  
Old 13th May 2016, 09:39 PM
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Ok so from the messages on here and the messages I've received about this theory it's starting to sound like there might actually be something in it.

The theory being... a mega batch of pellets will be excellent if not mega in most other guns too.

and the same is probably true for windage too - a mega batch of pellets that performs well in the wind is likely to be mega in the wind in most guns too. I'm not saying that a pellet that groups well indoors will necessarily group well outdoors though.

I'm starting to strongly suspect that the differences between guns/barrels isn't as diverse as what we're lead to believe.

In which case... a website where people could record batch numbers and comment about how good that batch is might do two positive things for the sport :

1. Help others to find a good pellet without having to buy lots of different batches to find out
2. Encourage manufacturers to strive towards making a better pellet. If sales of poor batches drop, but sales of mega batches increase, they're more likely to try to figure out how to make more mega batches.

Who's got the time to knock up a website?
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  #20  
Old 13th May 2016, 10:00 PM
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Interesting thread again Brian, you are making a habit of starting them!

I would have to agree with what has been said, last year after running low on my JSB's and changing from my BSA Hornet to the 8002 I tried 4 new batches, 8, 10, 12 and 22. The 22 was discounted straight away for my HFT shooting as the drop between 40 and 45 was 1/2" more than the others but up to 40y they were great with very tight groups. The other 3 batches were supplied by JSB as samples of their known good batches. The 8 and 10 were hard to separate, both performing very well. The 12 was a bit shorter in length than those 2 batches and not as good in the wind, this would tie in with Dean's observation of the shorter pellets being steered easier by the wind? a conclusion I too had arrived at when comparing Express with Exacts. I chose to buy a box of the 8's and both myself and Theresa Reed used these at Kelmarsh where we both won our classes, myself with the Anschutz and Theresa with her HFT500. They have been great in every rifle I have tried them in. I since bought some more 8's but 4.53 where as the original batch was 4.52, these were not quite as good in my Anschutz but better in the BSA barrels, it has long been rumoured that the BSA's like them large in both calibres so this was not a surprise. It does support your theory though that a good batch is good in many rifles.
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