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Old 18th October 2015, 07:23 PM
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Sundance Sundance is offline
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Default Clarification sought on Sling Rule please..

Taken from BFTA
Main Shoot Rules 2015

I. Any shooting position is allowed, but some lanes may be designated as ‘standing’ or ‘kneeling’.
II. Lanes designated kneeling may be shot from the standing position (Both targets must be shot using the same position).
III. All shots, from whatever shooting position must be made with the rifle’s muzzle wholly beyond the firing line and the rifle’s trigger wholly behind the firing line.
IV. Fully adjustable Rifle Stocks are permitted to accommodate various shooting styles and positions with no limitation as to design. Additional attachments are not permitted to be added or removed during the course of the event
a. The use of a sling, single or double point, for any shot is to be allowed to steady the aim and for carrying a rifle between lanes.'

I'm testing out some slings and I think I would like to take my testing further. However, I was told today at a WAFTA shoot that the only sling permissible is a double point sling. I was disappointed to hear this as I'm testing some single point slings.

I've just checked the BFTA Main Shoot Rules section and it seems to me that this 'double point' claim is just plain wrong. It seems pretty clear and straight forward; the rule states that a single point sling is allowed.

Am I missing or misunderstanding something?

Does Wafta shoot to BFTA Main Shoot Rules or some other set of rules regarding 'slings'?
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Old 18th October 2015, 07:32 PM
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Shaun Shaun is offline
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Hi Sundance

Single point sling allowed when shooting to BFTA rules.

Shaun (BFTA comp sec)
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Old 18th October 2015, 08:13 PM
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Sundance Sundance is offline
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Default Thanks

Thanks Shaun.

As I'm on the topic then perhaps I can pose a further question please?

I know from the rules that nothing can be added or taken away from the rifle during a competition.

Would it be permissible to have a single point sling permanently attached to the rifle, but not permanently attached to the shooter?

I'm thinking about adapting a single point sling so that it remains attached to the rifle but unclips from my upper bicep, leaving a bicep collar around my arm, but not constantly attached to the sling. I would like to be able to unclip myself from the sling in order to move around safely and not be encumbered by having a heavy rifle permanently attached to me.

Would that arrangement be permissible in a reasonable interpretation of the rules?
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Old 19th October 2015, 06:51 AM
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C.Eaton C.Eaton is offline
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This is where the rules get silly.

If you're allowed to use a single-point sling, then the user should be able to use the sling as intended, i.e. on the shooter's upper arm and only attached to the rifle when needed usually via a claw.

Having it so that the sling is attached to the front of the rifle just swinging about and getting in the way and requiring the shooter to slip into the cuff for each lane is just plain ridiculous in my opinion.
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Old 19th October 2015, 07:00 AM
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Single points are allowed but must remain attached through out the shoot. Simon Ayers uses one and between uses hooks it over the rear out of the way.

Steyr LG110 FT, Sightron SIIISS 10-50x60 LRIRMH
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Old 19th October 2015, 07:24 AM
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Default Clarification

What I'm considering is adapting a sling I have to make life easier.

I have no idea if there might be a single point sling that is manufactured already to be quick release from the bicep.

If anyone knows of one I would be grateful to hear.

My one can be released from the bicep via a buckle system but as the material is non stretch it is fiddly to do. Perhaps with repeated use and practice it will loosen up and get easier.

I'm quite happy to have the sling permanently attached to the rifle for all shots, seated, standing and kneeling. I know some just use it for one position only.

So I'm happy to have it dangling from the rifle. I would just like to put a clip in the end and clip it onto my upper arm instead of fiddling with a double prong buckle that loops around my arm.

I would like the bicep bit permanently attached to my arm, free to clip to the sling as and when required.

Difficult to explain perhaps ...

In these circumstances the sling would be permanently attached to the rifle. I just want to adapt the method of attaching my sling to the upper arm.

Would this be 'legal'?
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Old 19th October 2015, 07:28 AM
skires skires is offline
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Just adding on to Bri's comment about Simon Ayers ...

I've asked about slings a few times. It's an interesting detail that you ask about re a bicep band that will remain attached to your arm and the single point sling just attaches to that as you take the shots. That's basically what I planned to do. You can get single point slings that have basically a wire on the end and a hook or clip that attaches to a band on the bicep.

What put me off carrying on down that route ...

Several of the top FT guys commented that a sling is fine if you are on a range shooting ... say 50m stuff. In that environment the target is always in the same position in relation to the shooter.

In FT the targets are high and low and at various angles. The terrain is also not always flat, like on a range.

So the shooter is always having to adapt a position and tweak the body position slightly. So the shooters commented that a sling would be of little advantage, in these circumstances, as the whole idea of the sling relies on the body position being exactly the same every shot.

I sort of agree that this may be the case if you are using it as you describe with it fixed to a set point on the arm/bicep.

I'm not 100% in agreement as I think a number of angles can be accommodated whilst leaving the sling position, in relation to the front arm, the same.

Simon Ayers commented recently that he doesn't have the sling 'attached' to his front arm. He has the sling in a loop and slides the loop over his front arm, but it's not held in a certain place on his bicep by a typical strap etc.. So he can put that loop in slightly different positions on the arm as he adjusts his position for high/low shots etc.

I was looking to use a sling mainly for kneelers to give stability to the front fore arm. After some practice I found that it does help if you use a 'traditional' kneeling stance with the elbow on, or near, the knee. The sling then takes the weight of the rifle and helps. If you use the more common HFT/FT elbow slid back along the thigh so that the weight is supported by the thigh/forearm/lower leg, the position is far more stable and I found no real help from using the sling ( so far ). I'm actually getting virtually just as stable a hold on kneelers as sitters. That doesn't mean my kneelers are that good ... my sitting still needs plenty of work.

In the sitting position I use the front hand cupping the front knee method. So the front lower leg takes all the weight via the gloved front hand. So, again, I found no advantage using the sling in the sitting position.

Last edited by skires; 19th October 2015 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 19th October 2015, 07:55 AM
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Default My testing so far

Thanks for the replies.

So clearly a single point sling is legal and can be used. Even in a Wafta shoot I presume, despite what I was told yesterday.

It seems the consensus of the interpretation of the rules, from what I hear so far, is that it must remain attached to the rifle even though that is not how it is intended to be used by the manufacturer. Neither is it the practice of other shooting disciplines I believe.

It seems to me that there is an argument to be made in relation to the wording of the rule. If the rule states a sling can be 'used' then it should be able to be used as it is intended by the clipped and unclipped from the rifle on each shot.

Compliance with the wording of the BFTA rule could, it seems to me, be achieved by having it clipped to the rifle at the start of the completion and at the end of it.

'Use' of the sling during the course of the completion would involve clipping it to and from the rifle.

Would that be a reasonable interpretation of the rule?
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Old 19th October 2015, 08:06 AM
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Default Additional attachment..

It would not be an additional attachment if it is attached at the start and end of the competition.

Use of it, as allowed in the rules, is by clipping and unclipping it to the rifle.

If it is designed by the manufacturer to be 'used' in that way, and it is the usual and accepted method of use by other disciplines then it seems to me to be a reasonable interpretation of the rule...
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Old 19th October 2015, 08:25 AM
skires skires is offline
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I'm not a BFTA rule specialist by any means as I'm fairly new to FT.

I've read a lot though and asked questions. My understanding is that the sling issue isn't a particular bias against slings or their original intended use. They just get covered by a general umbrella rule, that basically allows any design of stock to be used ... or basically any gadget to be used ... but all things must remain in place, on the rifle, throughout the course and for every shot.

So, for instance, you can't wander around with a bag full of different hamsters or butthooks and keep changing these, to give an advantage, as you go around the course. People could also add and remove things from the stock to give better/different fit or weight for different positions like standing etc.

So you can't really get around that by saying that a certain item was on the rifle at the start and the finish ... but not all the time during. It has to be on ... and stay on ... for every shot.

However, you can adjust things on the stock etc. So people get around some of this by having multi adjustable hamsters etc.
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