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Old 20th May 2014, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by herx77 View Post
From above postings I would agree (that from my experience of early FT comps) there were very few pulled targets at least from the 80's to early 90's.Not sure why! but Dave Welhams targets were particulary reliable.Kieran might be right that you imagine the impact point of pellets on targets,but there are some good glass out there and sharp eyes that can track pellet onto impact point.Possible there might be more splitters that wishful thinking would like to be more than they were.
Maybe important and national comps should have a set group of 'reliable' targets that are maintained and used only for these competitions,reliability being the god and moving them where wanted.Cutting out lack of servicing that might occure in clubs.
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Personally Mike I don't think it is down to lack of target maintenance.
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Old 20th May 2014, 03:01 PM
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I have watched my pellets as they head off in the general direction of the KZ, when the light is like it was this weekend I could follow loads of them into the kill, seeing them just sneak in the edge, smack the middle or miss. The close ones are near impossible to see, when a 15mm gets beat up around the kill it is sometimes impossible to see where your pellet struck if you miss. But a long one in good light can be easy to see. The Premiers were especially good for this with their flat backs, as are some of the newer JSB's.

I am sure a little more care of the targets would improve the way a comp flows, I have only ever known 1 person to go around and lube all the targets before a comp and the course ran really well!

There are of course the occasions when the string gets snagged, I can think of a target that got hung up on a tight snagged string. and another that had a twig fall down behind the face plate, I should have called both of those but didn't only for someone else to do so and get the points!

I would always call one now if I was absolutely sure it should have fallen as I am sure anyone would so anything that can be done to improve their reliability would benefit the smooth running of a comp. Saying that you can count the number I have called in recent years on 1 hand, Only once was their a genuine fault. But more importantly peoples scores would reflect their shooting more accurately. We have probably all been on the winning and losing end from a pulled target and it can often make a big difference to a result rightly or wrongly.
With more reliable targets will come the confidence that if it hasn't gone down you missed, dodgy targets are going to create the doubt that maybe it should have gone over?

I would really like to see a water proof grease lathered on the pivots, not a spray of watery wazz but some decent grease that will last, I am sure it would be of a benefit to the targets and the comp.
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Old 20th May 2014, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kieran turner View Post
With regards to HFT I honestly think a lot of it is that shooters see the actual faceplate rattle causing the illusion the kill zone has been struck and due to the low magnifications used in comparison to our FT counterparts we don't actually see the target that clearly and we are unable (in the latter stages of a course) to clearly identify our strike marks.

I'd like to remind people that by it's very nature HFT shooting is a compromise and most people compromise with their scope settings, by that I mean they parallax at say 23y and shoot on x10 allowing them to see 13y to about 35y relatively crisp, there after the blur increases and the "crispness" is lost increasingly. In fact it is well documented that people use the amount of blur on their scopes to aid range finding by using this method.

Now by bearing the above in mind unless you have some excellent glass and a high parallax setting you will NOT see a target at 38y plus with a very good degree of clarity which would allow you to track your hits with a good degree of accuracy on a shot up target. So I cannot understand how shooters can see their hits consistently when using the first set of hypothetical settings mentioned. That's before even taking into account light and atmospheric conditions.

It is possible to track a pellet in flight for a about 25 percent of it's journey on the longer targets (40y onwards) but below that you may get a flash of pellet in the right light conditions out to about 35y but that's it, below that you are not tracking squat. So for the shorter shots it is virtually impossible to track a pellet in flight and on a shot up kill to ACCURATLEY see your hit i'd say is nigh on impossible on your closer shots, your brain simply does not work that fast.

Before anyone says i'm calling my fellow shooters liars etc. I'm not I just honestly believe that a lot of people don't understand the principles involved and therefore due to movement of the faceplate, lead flashing across a kill etc. and your brain not being able to process the information quick enough or correctly leads people to think "I got that", when actually you didn't, physics and biology has tricked you

discuss some more....
We were discussing this very thing on Sunday afternoon, and I can tell you for a fact Kieran that when I had my Steyr with the Stabiliser properly set up, it was much easier to track pellets even from close range. I could see them much of the time at home at 25 yards from below the cross hair and the flight into the strike at 1/2 a dot up.
I only brought it up as I noticed the Walther is much more lively, more like a springer and I can only pick up the pellet at the last moment if at all.
It's also much easier to track pellets with the sun behind you
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Old 20th May 2014, 03:27 PM
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Amazing how many could track thier pellets into the center of the kill of target 27 though

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Old 20th May 2014, 03:33 PM
herx77 herx77 is offline
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Originally Posted by kieran turner View Post
Personally Mike I don't think it is down to lack of target maintenance.
Comparing the different disciplines there does seem to be a regular proportionally larger amount of stoppages/ceasefires in HFT than FT.
I don't think targets have changed that much in 30 odd years,one would expect they have improved somewhat and at the GP2 Sunday most seem similiar to those seen at HFT events.Assuming servicing is regular and targets checked before inserted into a course and comply to regs that leaves the competitors and maybe pressure to succeed overides everything else(wishful thinking).
Maybe a record of targets suspected of being faulty, size and at what range might throw up a pattern,certainly FT seems not to be dogged by time wasting delays while targets are checked.
Nice post Kieran, a subject that is always moaned about but eventually accepted just grateful to finish the course.Might be worth mentioning that FT shoot at longer % beyond 35yds than HFT.
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Last edited by herx77; 20th May 2014 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 20th May 2014, 03:48 PM
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three of us managed to shoot a target that was left down at fort . it was 30 yards and dark but knew I had it which explained why I couldn't hear a thing when I shot it.
Incidently a target was pulled at the worlds which was maybe 10 but certainly no more than 12yds but shooter claimed he saw it hit the kill and didn't go down , I wish I could see that @12 yds but only have a sightron scope
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Old 20th May 2014, 04:05 PM
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I make it no secret that the amount of stoppages in HFT REALLY spoil it for me and from K's opening post it would seem i'm not the only one. So please stop being slack jawed faggots and let the comps flow[/QUOTE]

You did call the most targets out of all the other shooters a couple of years mind Chris

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Old 20th May 2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisc View Post
Amazing how many could track thier pellets into the center of the kill of target 27 though

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Old 20th May 2014, 04:16 PM
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Default targets

in last years welsh GP, i called my very first shot. the faceplate was black the paddle white. i took the shot and saw a mark on the paddle. i was certain in my mind that i had a direct hit. being the first shot at that target, i called it. when the marshall reached the target for examination, he told me the truth, i had hit the faceplate right by the killzone, the mark on the target was the paint removed by the pellet strike. i could only the mark until it was noted. i dont call targets that i think i have hit, because in all likely hood its i think i have hit it every time i have seen the pellet and its hit the paddle its gone down. now if i miss i just accept the fact im s@ite.
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Old 20th May 2014, 04:26 PM
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Default Zero target failure

The best way to eliminate as far as deemed possible is to check every target prior to the competition being shot. If all targets fall when checked and even double checked then they are as close to 100% effective from the start of the shoot. It could be mentioned at the briefing that the targets have been rigorously checked and double checked, so failures will be at an absolute minimum. At the end of the day, targets do sometimes fail during a comp.....but not 1 every time you shoot. It's the chief marshals decision to call it defective or not, IMO, if the target falls from the upright position when tested by striking the paddle, it's a good un.
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