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Old 20th May 2014, 11:20 AM
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HotShot HotShot is offline
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Originally Posted by chrisc View Post
I said this at the weekend K. I shot the Classic at Emley which was 2 x 40 shot courses. Not a single target pulled and maybe 4 stoppages all weekend down to the odd broken string.

So, that's 100+ of the best FT shots in the country (and international) seeing pellet strikes at 55yards on high mag and not calling a target.

And yet we have HFT shooters on 10 mag, 45 yards, parallax at 25 yards (ish) saying they see the pellet strike the centre of the kill......really?????

I can understand if a target is at an incorrect range/kill size, for example a 15mm kill at 11 yards, then yes, it should be pulled but the domino effect we saw at Fort with the same target being called, even after being check by the chief marshal, was a joke.

I have shot FT for years at clubs all around the country. I cannot remember a target getting pulled in the last 4 years (if at all for being faulty).

We had to change one at a GP (at Redfearns) that had been sprained by the mid session painter pulling down on the paddle to get up to it. That failed on the first shot and was tested with the target tester and replaced.

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Old 20th May 2014, 11:34 AM
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Yorkshiretea Yorkshiretea is offline
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Not been involved long but only seen one replaced at Redfearns, back paddle had bust on weld during Champs.
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Old 20th May 2014, 11:36 AM
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On the permanent targets . IE club targets that are left out . we found it best to leave em down after being shot . that way the rain did not get to the moving parts as badly . oh and of course the monthly work partys . ??? HOLLY
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Old 20th May 2014, 11:59 AM
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kieran turner kieran turner is offline
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With regards to HFT I honestly think a lot of it is that shooters see the actual faceplate rattle causing the illusion the kill zone has been struck and due to the low magnifications used in comparison to our FT counterparts we don't actually see the target that clearly and we are unable (in the latter stages of a course) to clearly identify our strike marks.

I'd like to remind people that by it's very nature HFT shooting is a compromise and most people compromise with their scope settings, by that I mean they parallax at say 23y and shoot on x10 allowing them to see 13y to about 35y relatively crisp, there after the blur increases and the "crispness" is lost increasingly. In fact it is well documented that people use the amount of blur on their scopes to aid range finding by using this method.

Now by bearing the above in mind unless you have some excellent glass and a high parallax setting you will NOT see a target at 38y plus with a very good degree of clarity which would allow you to track your hits with a good degree of accuracy on a shot up target. So I cannot understand how shooters can see their hits consistently when using the first set of hypothetical settings mentioned. That's before even taking into account light and atmospheric conditions.

It is possible to track a pellet in flight for a about 25 percent of it's journey on the longer targets (40y onwards) but below that you may get a flash of pellet in the right light conditions out to about 35y but that's it, below that you are not tracking squat. So for the shorter shots it is virtually impossible to track a pellet in flight and on a shot up kill to ACCURATLEY see your hit i'd say is nigh on impossible on your closer shots, your brain simply does not work that fast.

Before anyone says i'm calling my fellow shooters liars etc. I'm not I just honestly believe that a lot of people don't understand the principles involved and therefore due to movement of the faceplate, lead flashing across a kill etc. and your brain not being able to process the information quick enough or correctly leads people to think "I got that", when actually you didn't, physics and biology has tricked you

discuss some more....
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Old 20th May 2014, 12:17 PM
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It's very easy to clip an edge and see a splash in a kill even with a perfectly focused ft scope and think its a hit. I've been fooled by that thinking that wind has taken me across when it's in fact barely moved. At the weekend I missed 8. I think I failed to see 4 of them land despite them being in focus. And there were plenty I didn't see strike the kill even though the target fell. I'd say I'm more inclined to see a miss than a hit. Sometimes conditions allow me to see most of my shots hits or misses but there are days when I don't see that many.
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Old 20th May 2014, 12:56 PM
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This is my 21st year competing and in the last 10yrs there are certainly more "HFT divas" about. I believe their delusional state effects their vision and overcomes the obvious LOFT* leading to more called targets.


* LOFT....Lack Of F*****g Talent
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Old 20th May 2014, 12:58 PM
simona simona is offline
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I've shot FT on and off since 1988. I've never knowingly hit the kz and not seen the target fall. On one occasion I placed an apparent hit in the centre of the kz with my first shot on a course and it didn't fall. I called a cease fire, went out and there was a tiny silver streak on the edge of the faceplace at 6 o'clock; I was wrong.

I've definately had at least 1 target fall in response to a miss. I have no plans to ever call a target again.
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Old 20th May 2014, 01:02 PM
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Conor Conor is offline
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For what its worth the newest double link knockover target mechanism, not the older type 'S', are far more unforgiving to splits. Ive seen 70% of a split hit the paddle and mark centre and the target not go down. The paddle even moves but it doesn't drop.

My knockover has been permanently outside since 2003 on the same fence post and it NEVER has failed. It gets a service once a year and the occassional spray of oil. It has taken a fair few tins of lead in it's time!

Targets that are close range especially reducer style targets need a bit more maintainance, I did see a reducer target that had a paddle that had been shot out with a tiny hole in the middle. This shouldnt been the case, a paddle from knockover is only a few quid to replace.

The front spring is something that often goes ignored and on older type targets it should be replaced, a target falling with a faceplate hit shouldn't happen and this can only happen with a worn front hinge spring. It should tension against the faceplace sufficiently that it prevents the vibration of the faceplate. This vibration, or faceplate wobble, (if the hinge spring isnt tensioned correctly) allows it to engage the paddle causing it to fall.
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Old 20th May 2014, 01:21 PM
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Funnily enough i did call a target at the Classic...the scenario was.

Only 2 had shot the target before and both missed at the 12 o clock position. i shot and saw a mark in the kill, clean and not close to the edge. i had a check for any split marks but was shooting SFT on 10 mag. My shooting buddy had a look at 50 mag and could see no splits so before he shot i asked the marshal to check it out. There was a split at 6 o clock but you needed to be right on top of the target to see it. My point is that even with an experienced FT shooter checking the target a split couldn't be seen and even with 99% of the pellet hitting the kill still didn't fall.......git

I make it no secret that the amount of stoppages in HFT REALLY spoil it for me and from K's opening post it would seem i'm not the only one. So please stop being slack jawed faggots and let the comps flow
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Old 20th May 2014, 02:24 PM
herx77 herx77 is offline
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From above postings I would agree (that from my experience of early FT comps) there were very few pulled targets at least from the 80's to early 90's.Not sure why! but Dave Welhams targets were particulary reliable.Kieran might be right that you imagine the impact point of pellets on targets,but there are some good glass out there and sharp eyes that can track pellet onto impact point.Possible there might be more splitters that wishful thinking would like to be more than they were.
Maybe important and national comps should have a set group of 'reliable' targets that are maintained and used only for these competitions,reliability being the god and moving them where wanted.Cutting out lack of servicing that might occure in clubs.
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