Shooting the breeze The BSB Butt Pad  
Go Back   Shooting the breeze > The Chat > Polls

Polls Just exactly how many do what, where, when, with what, and why?

View Poll Results: Is it time to consider a ban on slings for safety?
No slings are fine to use 50 35.71%
Yes ban them and carry or bag your gun 34 24.29%
Use a sling but only muzzle down 56 40.00%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 29th November 2016, 08:13 PM
Ray Rudd's Avatar
Ray Rudd Ray Rudd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Member of: Millride & Purley Chase
Location: Cannock
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by handbylt View Post
Bugger....missed that...ignore my previous post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Samson View Post
There's only 1 'L' in marshal
I was going to drop the second L but it got stuck in my sLLing. LLLoll
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 23rd December 2016, 07:06 PM
holly holly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Member of: carisbrooke rangers
Location: ISLE OF WIGHT
Posts: 2,879
Default Case

Yet another case of a rule looking for somewhere to go . if you think you see something that is unacceptable and dangerous , simple , say something to whoever is doing it ??? HOLLY
__________________
" Be your self , everybody else is taken "
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 23rd December 2016, 07:09 PM
Mr P's Avatar
Mr P Mr P is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member of: Castle
Location: Sunny Ilkeston
Posts: 1,101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holly View Post
Yet another case of a rule looking for somewhere to go . if you think you see something that is unacceptable and dangerous , simple , say something to whoever is doing it ??? HOLLY
Tut tut Holly there go talking sense again
Merry Christmas you old git and may you have many more

Lots of love

mr P
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 24th December 2016, 06:47 AM
Darron's Avatar
Darron Darron is offline
Reformed Bandit
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Member of: Millride FTC
Location: Brownhills West Midlands
Posts: 839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holly View Post
Yet another case of a rule looking for somewhere to go . if you think you see something that is unacceptable and dangerous , simple , say something to whoever is doing it ??? HOLLY
I wouldn't have a problem with that Holly but others might. Rules are made to stop people being put in that position and to try and avoid accidents.
__________________
Jon Harris Anschutz 9015
March 80x

Since JH9015 : 92.3 / 85.7 / 97.3 / 86.6 / 71.4
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 24th December 2016, 10:10 AM
Mr H. Mr H. is offline
I am not even a number.
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Member of: Millride & British Field Target Council - Pre BFTA
Location: Halesowen.
Posts: 54
Default Rifle slings

Ok,
So rifle slings are to allow people to safely carry their rifles etc comfortably. It is also a visible sign that the gun is being transported safely.

Scenario 1 -

I carry my rifle with the sling over my shoulder, one hand is usually on the rifle to steady it and ensure it doesn't slip off my shoulder. Muzzle up or down doesn't matter in this case. My choice.
So 2 points of contact - shoulder and hand.
If I tumble or slip then hopefully the rifle stays on my shoulder and I have a spare hand to stop me from falling or to at least break my fall. I have in the past slipped down a bank and deliberately fell on the opposite side so my rifle didn't get damaged.

Scenario 2.

I am at an Organised shoot where I pay to shoot a competition.
I am governed by the rules of that club - organisation etc.
Carrying a rifle with a sling is not allowed at that shoot - ok.
So I have to carry the rifle from shooting point to shooting point.
Someone slips on the course - no sling - no soft bag - their instinct is to use both hands to save the over expensive kit from damage.
They now do not have that extra hand to stop them from falling.

The gun hits me on the back of my head or does some other damage hospitalising me.

It's a genuine accident - but - who is to blame?

Well there is a term "Proximate Cause" check it out. It's good.

Proximate cause is the primary cause of an injury. It is not necessarily the closest cause in time or space nor the first event that sets in motion a sequence of events leading to an injury. Proximate cause produces particular, foreseeable consequences without the intervention of any independent or unforeseeable cause. It is also known as legal cause.

To help determine the proximate cause of an injury in Negligence or other tort cases, courts have devised the "but for" or "sine qua non" rule, which considers whether the injury would not have occurred but for the defendant's negligent act. A finding that an injury would not have occurred but for a defendant's act establishes that the particular act or omission is the proximate cause of the harm, but it does not necessarily establish liability since a variety of other factors can come into play in tort actions.

So as a committee member of a club or a National committee if a decision to ban slings, (which have been used to carry weapons for a couple of hundred years), and someone gets hurt then that committee becomes liable. They are not a limited liability club and each committee member would be open to private prosecution through the courts.
Too expensive - no not really as most home insurance policies have legal cover - mine has a limit of 50,000.

So - Discuss......

If it's not broken don't try to mend it. It could cost you more than you realise.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 24th December 2016, 10:19 AM
Darron's Avatar
Darron Darron is offline
Reformed Bandit
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Member of: Millride FTC
Location: Brownhills West Midlands
Posts: 839
Default

Having been to many shoots where after a safety briefing your all despatched to your lanes, a que forms as we all try to get to our lanes and the next thing you come face to face with a muzzle up your nose because someone decides to carry a rifle muzzle up. That simply can't be right?
If a sling has to be used then it Must be muzzle down surely? Why did the army ban the carrying of weapons muzzle up with the exception of display purposes 50 years ago?

In your argument you centre on likely injury to yourself, the concern of this thread centres more on the likely injury to others
__________________
Jon Harris Anschutz 9015
March 80x

Since JH9015 : 92.3 / 85.7 / 97.3 / 86.6 / 71.4
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 24th December 2016, 11:02 AM
Mr H. Mr H. is offline
I am not even a number.
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Member of: Millride & British Field Target Council - Pre BFTA
Location: Halesowen.
Posts: 54
Default

Interesting about the Army - only for display purposes. So those guns would be empty. No rounds chambered etc. Bit like us responsible airgunners transferring from shooting point to shooting point with our air-rifles. Not loaded. Well if it's good enough for the British Army then it's good enough for us. So we can carry the guns on a sling when not loaded. Display Purpose style.
If you want to solve the problem then the clubs should supply a shroud of some sort to go over the end of the barrel to show safe. Easy. It could even be padded incase the barrel caught somebody or something. Leather would even stop a pellet if needed and if it was elasticated it could be attatched to the gun somewhere

Last edited by Mr H.; 24th December 2016 at 11:44 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 24th December 2016, 04:34 PM
simmmo's Avatar
simmmo simmmo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Buxted County HFT Republic of Sussex
Posts: 413
Default

Mate of mine accidentally shot his mate in the bum point blank with a .177 12ft/lb whilst out hunting penetrated 9 inches and after a trip to the hospital the pellet is still there. Am pretty sure the bit in the safety briefings referring to not resting the muzzle on your foot is in response to some FT shooter shooting themself in said foot. I used a sling for years now use a bag both are in my opinion equally safe depending on how stupid I am. Bad gun handling happens challenge it as it happens. If we do then we educate and hopefully negate some really bad press coverage if it all goes wrong. I was pretty safe i felt with a sling muzzle down I would argue i would be equally safe muzzle up as i am always mindful of where my barrel is pointing as I always consider my gun loaded as I learnt walked up game shooting with a loaded shotgun. How many remember the information film on the TV of someone shooting their mate with an unbroken twelve bore while negotiating a fence. Tried to explain to a club member once that he had obviously put his airgun into the hard case loaded and that was why there was a pellet hole coming out of said hardbox. He wouldnt have it he couldnt have been so stupid. Leant a gun to a mate so he could use it in his garden. Came back loaded and ready to go. People have different opinions and see scenarios differently. I think the most sensible rule would be for all weapons to be proved on arrival at an event. Now whose going to do that. Lets just listen to the safety brief and pray.

Monkey.
__________________
Hobbit Army

ISP Airstream MK3 SN/03 NF NXS 2.5 -10 X32mm mildot

ISP Airstream MK3 SN/24 NF NXS 2.5 -10 X32mm np-r2 perfect ret

ISP Spartan Classic SN/02 Leupold VX2 3-9 x33mm duplex
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 30th December 2016, 10:17 AM
Dale Dale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 227
Default

I haven't shot FT seriously since the 2009 Worlds in South Africa and have never shot HFT so I am not familiar with the procedures currently followed.

However, since moving away from FT into back into Gallery Rifle shooting, the safety procedures I am familiar with are somewhat more formal than those I remember from FT.

Basically no firearms are removed from bags/cases unless on the firing point, under RO control and proved clear. Once unbagged, muzzles are either pointed at the target, or if moving between positions are carried muzzle up. All firearms are proved clear again prior to being returned to the bag or case.

Slings would not be considered a safe method of carry.

Now this more formal system may not lend itself to FT/HFT perfectly, but for the future it might be worth looking at bringing the sport up to a more structured safety format, although to be fair, so far the current system seems to have a fairly good track record.

Personally, if I was to start shooting FT again, my preferred method would be to keep the rifle bagged until at the firing point and re-bag after taking my shots.

Last edited by Dale; 30th December 2016 at 10:24 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 26th January 2017, 11:32 AM
ShaggerShaw's Avatar
ShaggerShaw ShaggerShaw is offline
Ian
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Member of: Castle
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 142
Default

Utter bollocks

As long as you know the state of your rifle what does it matter how you carry it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
winter time is here so its Biathlon time sportsmatch Hunter / Field Target 0 29th November 2015 04:14 AM
should the use of slings in FT be banned? Darron Polls 38 23rd October 2015 05:49 PM
FT slings skires Hunter / Field Target 3 24th March 2014 02:46 PM
No slings holly Hunter / Field Target 10 18th November 2013 04:36 PM
Use of slings in FT CoolId Hunter / Field Target 8 8th October 2011 09:16 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
shooting-the-breeze.com Skin design and concept by Attitude