Thread: BFTA meeting
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Old 24th November 2010, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by berty177 View Post

What we agreed on was to incorporate 2 x 15mm kills to a maximum of 25yds and 8 x 25mm kills to a max of 35yds.
Disciplines would be set up as 6 x kneelers with combined distance in kneeling lane of a max of 70 yards.
4 x standers with a combined distance of 60 yards.
this is what we completed for GP courses. That means that there would be 20 targets taken up in this format and 30 x 40mm kills for other shots.
This means that a GP course must consist of 10 mini kills and full discipline shots.
I know in Hungary the courses consisted of 50% of the targets being mini kills which I thought was excessive. With a guaranteed 20% of our courses being mini kills all sitting is a start.
15 ml at 25 yards is a good range, but at gp level it could have gone to 30 yards for me, in the right lane.
I put a 15 ml kill out on a vermin shoot at our last comp. All the "AA/a" grade shots hit it (and a few lower grades), the like of Berty, Little jack, even me! Little jack even took it standing.
Would like to have seen 25 ml sitters go out another 5 yards to 40 as lets face it grouping at 35 yards under an inch is no problem when wind is not a factor. However, it comes back to course design. Our (Gp 3 Tondu) 25 ml kills at 30 yards this year took lots of marks, well the ones up the green pole and the one in the bowl, But then the wind was far worse than expected! Hardly any of the other mini kills in sheltered lanes took marks.

Originally Posted by View Post
.... some of the target were silly at best i think there was a 25mm at 50 yds with only 2 hits from 16 shots and they where not newcomers that did not know what they where doing common sense must prevail
Quite agree, 40 yards is about max for 1 inch kills to be skill and not luck, especially in wind.

Originally Posted by L-S-R View Post
I think what Steve means, don't test pot luck with a mini up a flimsy tree on a thin branch which sways about in the lightest of winds.
What is bad is a black face plate on a 15mm in a dark wood, when splatted can be difficult to make out the kill
Swaying targets? Nothing in the rules about them lol, but its not much fun. That is unless you sway too then the target is still, Had that at tawd Vale in 2006, my first gp upon returning to Ft. Hit it, missed most others
Faceplate colour, mmmmm, I remember the good old days when targets were painted as they are, ie brown /black /White rats with red eyes, B&W magpies etc. I dont like Yellow myself, we use black in one lane and white in another, helps avoid confusion when targetsd are close to the last lane. Personally, dont have a probem with a black 15 ml in dark woods, you should not be hitting the plate lol. I do however think target numbers need to be within a few feet of the target as if your as Blind as I am, it helps when trying to find the "Blur" if you dont shoot with glasses on.

Originally Posted by berty177 View Post
I wouldnt put a 15mm kill target 20yds out and 30ft up a tree. I didnt look at using 25mm kills in discipline lanes etc, as I feel it is enough to change what we have already looked at changing on a GP course for now. I dont want to run before we can walk on course set up changes.
the involvement of 20% of reduced kills in GP courses would bring down the average overall and on some grounds that might have issues placing 50 long targets this would help them to develop their grounds with reduced kills on their courses.
Some courses are tough and draining with complete full kills involved throughout the course.
I have asked for these changes due to as I have already said, the lads locally and far away saying to me what they feel would be good to have in courses. 2 x 15mm kills to a maximum of 25yds is not going to change the courses at all really. We would take our time on them though when we are pulling the trigger...
You cant get 30 ft up a tree . So 15 ml out to 25 yards was the only rule change this year?I would hgave gone for 1 inch kneeler in Gp course. There is a seperate set of Gp rules so it would only have been on the most demanding courses (Gp) and for on the whole, the better shots in the country. Got to make sure Gp shoots stay at gp level.

Originally Posted by rich View Post
15mm at 25 yards is a test of you and your technique, whereas a 55 yarder can be a test of your rangefinding, and by definition your equipment. They "examine" different aspects and both have a part to play.
And we all know that a 15mm kill takes as much wind as a 40mm kill, the wind doesn't know it's a reducer. But with a 15mm kill sometimes you have to be some way outside the kill which seems very odd if you are used to full size kills only.
Quite agree, however I think 15ml out to 30yards for GP, it a lane with no wind

Originally Posted by berty177 View Post
I know the BFTA would listen to any points that are put forward to assist in making things better for the sport.
I have alos put forward the team Championships which will run along side the GP series. Everyone liked the idea and wanted it included. Luckily Simon Evans is happy to run this part of the format to get it off the ground. I can look at sponsorship for this which I feel would be a success. The teams can have as many memebers in the team, the 3 top scores from each club count. This means that clubs could put a team in with just 3 members, which most clubs would be able to do.
Another item I asked about was having a top junior trophy at each GP round. The jnr would have to be under 16 years of age on the day of that comp. this means that if some lads turn 16 half way through the season then they would have to shoot in the normal grades. It would be an extra trophy donated just for this.
We have looked at organising specific people as photographers for the BFTA at the shoots to take pics on the day of the winners etc for advertising. This all helps us get the sport out there in the mags which is something Ive been trying to sort this year...
Better for the sport? Thats one for defination? For me , that would mean more people shooting at local level Wafta is not a big region in terms of shooters per comp. Usually 30-40. I believe this comes down to the old equipment myth. You "MUST" have the best kit to compete in ft one. Now if ranges were shorter in local Ft and people did niot need 500 + scopes to range find, I think we would see far more people get into Ft as it would be cheaper.This is where I think smaller kills = better skill at closer ranges will score well, partuarly with nwer shooters?
Whats better at gp level? Wind.
Ok, we cant order it and at at least two of the Gp this year the wind was a non starter which meant some C & B class beating A & AA easily as there was hardly a need to come out of the kills. A such, hopefully some more testing smaller kills wil help sort shooters out on such days?
I dont really think much is wrong at gp level on the whole. While i welcome the 15ml kills and as said, would say ok to say 2 x 1 inch kneelers per course I liem the mix at the moment where you may have small kills in the southern shoots and more full in the North? Saying that, I did Find Anston in need of a few reducers by the end of the day.
There is no luck in me offering to help collate score for team events. Going back to the early 1990's the team event was the one that sticks in the mind, though it was a one day affair then, Knockout style. Think having "other" teams will be good for some banter etc. You got the high flying AA, now you can have "AA but not as ugly as the other AA team!"
At least with me helping to collate score, team Vintage NJR stand a good chance of winning, even though it went hissss yesterday . Mr.Murphy
Good idea about Junior trophy. Need ore families shooting etc.
What about a fat mans trophy? Quite a few could enter that class with me .
Definaltey need more "mag" coverage as spoken to Berty about, will do all I can to help there.

Originally Posted by L-S-R View Post
15mm are ok, they look worse that they actually are, easy really when you compare to the 7mm kills the Russians have in some of their comps
Yes, our 10 + 8 ml kills can be hard if at the wrong distances, 8- 12 yards! 12 - 20 and most get them!

Originally Posted by LittleJack View Post
im well behind the idea 15mm up to 25 yards
No we are not having 15 ml standers lol

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