Thread: Countback
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Old 7th June 2014, 05:23 PM
verminator verminator is offline
Join Date: May 2010
Member of: Bisley
Location: London
Posts: 94

Originally Posted by Brian.Samson View Post
You're not extrapolating a score from a second set of rules, it's one competition with one set of rules.
Countback is a part of the rules and a part of the competition.

The problem is a problem of limited time and resources, given that limitation countback is quite a fair system. It's not perfect, but I think it's fair. First person to miss starting from target 1 is the loser - pretty simple, pretty fair and involves the same shooting skill that's required to shoot the competition. Shooting in a shoot off is a different skillset to shooting in a competition.

Setting up shoot off targets, running round the place trying to find the people needed to shoot in the shoot off, waiting for them to get their gun back out of the car and put a fill of air in, all takes a lot of time. I've had to organise enough of them to know it's a pain in the arris. A shoot off can add an extra hour or more to the end of a competition, and it's not just the other shooters it delays, very often the hosting club can't start packing away the
course until the shoot offs have finished either.

When you're talking about what's fair - have a thought for what's fair to ask of the hosting club, all the other competitors and the organisers? Is it fair to ask the other competitors to hang around for an hour or so at the end of the shoot to wait for shoot offs to finish? What happens if one of the shooters in the shootoff has had to leave early? - do they forfeit?, so the winner becomes the person who has enough spare time to hang around until the end of the shoot. What shooting skill does that involve?

Is it fair to ask the hosting clubs to delay packing away for an hour or two, after they've been working hard since the crack of dawn to set the thing up? Is it fair to ask the organisers to put in all the extra work involved in running shoot offs? These people are giving up their time for free so everyone can have a fun, safe days shooting. I guess if you're willing to pay 50 entry fee each you could probably afford to pay wages and overtime - that would seem fair to me then. Whilst people are working for free, be grateful for the time they put in and think long and hard before you start asking for them to do more for nothing.

If you could come up with a fairer system (that doesn't involve any delays at the end of the shoot) I'm sure the two Pete's would be very interested to hear it.

Not having a pop at you personally, I've just had enough experience of running events to know that when someone says - "oh that shouldn't take too much time", I suspect they've never had to organise one.
The main shoot is the main shoot and the shoot-off is the shoot-off. These are two separate contests, you are merging them and I am saying that's wrong. All shooters in the shoot-off, with the same score, got the same score. Why should pegs 1-10, chosen arbitrarily, be treated any different to the other pegs?

I have the utmost respect for the clubs and the organizers. I'm just trying to find a better way, which seemed to be the topic of this thread.

You've shot-down my 5 peg course idea and the sudden-death shoot-off idea. I quite liked the paper target idea, but that's been shot down too.

Maybe we should introduce bonus points for style. We could have an extra point for shooting "from the hip" and "between the legs"
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