Hi Lofty, I'm not knocking the AR20 at all and I think as an entry into FT they are good. Getting started in FT is beyond the reach of many shooters even if you buy second hand so anything which eases that first few steps into the sport and encourages newcomers has got to be good. Your point about the GC2 being changed for the latest "must have" etc really doesn't apply as they where replaced by more affordable and modern rifles just as you change your car etc. You are correct in that there are people who will buy the latest gear just because they want to and that is there choice. Nice equipment is nice to use and own and gives you a pride in your set up. The point I was trying to make is that as in any competitive sport the top people will use the best equipment they can get regardless of the cost and if the AR20 was good enough then it would be used by them, the simple fact is that they arn't. People like Jon have more experience than most and Jon in particular has re engineered and modified more rifles than I've had hot dinners, he knows what he's talking about. I've been lucky enough to compete in three world championships and Walther have sponsored a Hamerlie team at each one with highly modified AR20's they where shot by fairly average German shooters and the results where "average" if they thought they could compete at the very top surely they would have sponsored the best shooters to shoot them?