Originally Posted by fireblade
Hi, Paula here
Just to say this has been long in the making i.e enforcing the already viable kneeling rules which have been flouted by many for a long while, and this is why the problem has surfaced.
For too long I have seen top shooters taking advantage with over-sized bean bags scrunched up to provide a mega platform for knee, shin, ankle and backside, therefore a sitting position in my eyes.
I commented to a fellow well known shooter (my partner) at the Euros a couple of years ago that his kneeling position was not correct, he had one of the over-sized bags, was kneeling with his right knee on the right hand side of the bag, the remainder of the bag was up under his bum and provided a very comfy seat,
After my comment he did not repeat all weekend so there you go!!
Also those who wear trainers which are flexible to allow flexing at the ankle joint to align the foot with the leg i.e along the floor, also allows unfair support, they are sat on the leg and foot, not kneeling!!
The comment about boots does not hold water, most of us use sturdy soled boots which afford protection to our toes, we spend a small fortune on rifles and scopes so this is a minor issue.
Ideally, marshalls should be on kneeling lanes to make sure everyone is advised accordingly, wishful thinking!!
Paula I know what your saying but I can assure you my foot isn't going flat to get support. Indeed you can dig the ground out under the arch and it will stay there. It won't collapse further. The points of contact are the same, the shin and the foot. Granted there is more foot on the floor and more shin. No-one gets their knee supported unless they push the bag up in front of the knee... and this i've done, but i've seen to the degree where the bag was covering the entire thigh. As I said earlier, if you have a massive bag, then you can still get the majority of it in front yet elevate the knee to quite some degree, which gets us back to square one. Kit being adapted to get around basic shooting skills. That may seem ironic considering I use a shooting jacket and anything else at hand but it's always done in parallel with basic shooting position work, not to replace it.
The problem with boots is that while it will solve the support issue I'd say within a few years we will be seeing proposals for level targets etc.
I didn't feedback to my rep because I thought common sense would prevail that woukd be that the problem itself would be attacked and not the goal posts moved to which end I think there's a real danger of some of the problems not being solved and new ones created.
It seems there is common agreement that sitting on the bag in kneeling is against the spirit of the sport. So outlaw it. Make it a simple rule that the bag cannot touch the bum for a start. Then if further issues arise mention more body parts. But all the time large bags are allowed then you can get the majority in front of the knee and also lift it up, which raises the fore end to solve the issue of uphill shots. Some will work that out. And we will be back hear later to have a discussion on how much the knee can be kept clear of the ground by, how deep the mud is and just how much fiddling with the boot your allowed before taking the shot.
It would help I think if proposals were kicked back to the region for formatting.
What is the problem that exists now?
What causes it?
How does the proposal solve the problem?
What other problems may it create?
Because proposals seem to be reactive to issues yet many are less than well defined and even fewer have been researched and tested. And the bfta run around in circles each time.